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(Read the official “Dark Knight” review here.)
Alright, now that most audiences have begun filing out of cinemas across the country, I figure it is time to offer up The Geek Review of “The Dark Knight.”
Bear in mind, this review/column/joygasm will be filled with spoilers. If you want to go into the film fresh (as indeed you should — despite the overall lack of major surprises), then steer clear. Most of the spoilerish stuff I’ll save for after the jump, but for now, I’d like to get into the filmmakers’ handling of the source material.
Christopher Nolan and company have always been aware of the necessity for being faithful to the seven decades of material available to them when digging into this franchise. What has kept the series fresh and not simply a cut-and-paste effort has been a willingness to test those fan-set boundaries and still get away with some rather brazen decisions.
“Batman Begins” was filled to the brim with such instances: Utilizing Ra’s al Ghul as a creation point of sorts for the Batman. Introducing a love interest previously absent from the canon and revealing Batman’s secret identity to her. Destroying Wayne Manor. Etc.
With that in mind, “The Dark Knight” has its fair share of departures that still work in the hyper-real-world setting of the franchise, and, presumably, will be allowed to pass, if not cheered outright by fans seeing the film this weekend.
Spoilers coming! You have been warned!
Alright, for starters, the vision of the Joker seen in this film is not at all something fans would have considered an expected definitive. Trailers and TV spots let the cat out of the bag on where Heath Ledger was taking this thing, but they thankfully didn’t reveal the hidden depth that is there (and which, I must say, has always been lurking, yet never fully capitalized upon on the page).
Ledger’s madness mixed with a drive to reveal hypocrisy has therefore become the definitive. Forget Mark Hamill, forget Jack Nicholson and, of course, forget Caesar Romero (if you hadn’t already). This is what this iconic figure could have always been, and now, he is.
The way Nolan has tweaked the origin of the Joker is also a breath of fresh air. There are two sides of the coin: some fans prefer an origin-less Joker, while precious few others prefer the “one bad day” hypothesis of Alan Moore in “The Killing Joke,” as expanded from the old Red Hood stories of the 1950s. The latter is hinted at by Ledger in one instance (”I had a wife”), but obviously negated by the fact that every time he talks about the scars, it’s a different story.
Kind of brilliant, I say.
Next up, it seems I was dead on the money back in May when I hypothesized a fire-driven genesis for Two-Face as opposed to the acid origin of the comics.
At first, this bothered me. The scene is clearly building up to it and is slightly silly (what with the multiple shots of Aaron Eckhart’s Harvey Dent character wallowing in the gasoline…we get it…it’s coming). But when “it” happens, and we see the fire hitting Dent’s face, I thought, “Eh…not so much.”
But as the third act moved forward, I began to respect the choice more and more. The first relief, of course, was that the character was not born out of the direct hand of the Joker, as had been the rumored case since the original trilogy had been outlined by Nolan and David Goyer. Then I recognized the sheer randomness of the occurrence, and it dawned on me that it is quite applicable considering Two-Face’s obsession with chance.
Of course, I don’t think it’s very believable the fire would have done THAT kind of damage, but we can go with it.
The Oracle shout-out apparent in Lucius Fox’s transmissions to the Batman in the film’s third act (the wicked technological device that allows vast spying and is an obvious smack down regarding our political environment) is also a nice touch, and perhaps a way around actually going through with such a story angle in future films. Obviously we won’t see Barbara Gordon growing up any time soon to become Oracle, but it’s nice to see the writers still weaving separate pieces of the tapestry together.
Batman’s relationship with the Joker is also handled with the utmost care and pays off extraordinarily well. The final scene, with Joker hanging upside down and Heath offering those final, meaningful lines, is sheer bliss in this light. “I think we’re destined to do this forever.” If only, Heath.
It’s probably obvious that the character was not supposed to come to an end here. Leaving it at that isn’t exactly impossible, but if the franchise is to go on with a Joker, I say heaven help the actor charged with filling Ledger’s shoes. But with a little creativity and voice actor work, he can live on in Arkham, perhaps, but i’m certainly not in charge of such things.
The sad thing is that the Joker really is primed to be the ultimate thorn in Batman’s side now. On the other hand, the anarchy he unleashes in this film could certainly not be topped in any future installment, lest it feel familiar and in the way of other character development. But with this Joker in play, would we as the audience expect anything less? I should think not.
Thankfully, the Rachel Dawes character has been put out of our misery. And right at the end of a bland performance from Maggie Gyllenhaal that didn’t amount to much emotionally. Dawes was always the weakest part of the “Batman Begins” script and though she served her role well in that film, it really would have been wise to have written the character out of this installment.
Still, the writers needed some way of allowing Dent a path to insanity (though Jeph Loeb certainly didn’t need such devices). I’m glad she’s gone, regardless, because too many fucking people know Bruce Wayne’s secret! Now if only we could do something about the guy who was supposed to spill the beans on Anthony Michael Hall’s show.
And as mentioned, I’m fine with Fox stepping in for Oracle. For the time being, I guess I’m cool with him knowing what’s up.
The gadgetry and sleekness of the underground Bat headquarters was fine, though I couldn’t shake the feeling that I’m ready to see the Batcave up and running in its full glory. With all the sweet detective devices revealed here (that gunshot fingerprint test was amazing), they just seemed out of the proper environment.
It all goes back to what I still feel is an unwise decision to destroy Wayne Manor in the original film. There’s no reason the next stage of the Batcave couldn’t have gone forward here, but I suppose we’ll get it eventually.
I liked the early hat-tip to Scarecrow. He was used effectively rather than bothering with tossing another rogue into the main fray. Perhaps he can be utilized again and with a little more menace behind his efforts. We’ll see.
Finally, and this is not a spoiler, obviously, but a lot of people kept telling me “I don’t want to say too much.” Nothing major happened in this film that I wasn’t expecting, but that build-up put one thing in my mind and one thing only: when is Ra’s going to show up once more.
Let’s face it. They played with the immortal thing in “Batman Begins” with the idea that there is always someone new to take up the guise of the underground, Keyser Soze-like villain. But I think we all know something more was going on in that closes-his-eyes “death” scene at the end of the original film. Suddenly I began wondering if he was going to pop up at the end here and have had a hand in the Joker’s treachery, still aiming at destroying Gotham however he can.
I think there is a lot that can be done in that light and I hope it’s at least considered. You can’t just do away with the guy. There just has to be more to that story. Doesn’t there? Right?
Anyway, let loose with your spoiler-filled thoughts on the film in this thread. Did you hate it, did you love it, what worked, what didn’t, etc. I hope you all had as wonderful a time as I did, and to all my fellow Bat-fanatics, I trust you were grinning ear to ear, just like me.
So have at it in the comments section below.
58 responses so far
1 7-18-2008 at 8:27 pm
Casey said...
First, let me say I loved this film. despite the major problems I had with it I think it still manages to pop it’s way into my TOP TEN of the DECADE thus far.
I too loved the appearence of Scarecrow. A lot of people complained about this claiming it to be unnecessary. I have to disagree, it’s not as if he took up unnecessary time or anything, it was just a reference to the ongoing crime of the “super-villians” of gotham, which is the way it should be because its not like these evil men are put away and that’s it… done for.
Kris, I have to ask you what your thoughts were on my problems with the film as I value your opinion highly. So here they are:
1. Not enough intimate time with Bruce Wayne. It was a bit more of an ensemble than I wouldve liked. I feel like a major positive for this film is Nolan’s and Bale’s ability to show Bruce’s development through other characters and while he is Batman, but I can’t help but feel like Bruce Wayne wasn’t the main character, Batman was.
2. Editing. I think it was perfect in the action sequences but in the more intimate scenes It felt rushed. probably adding to my view on the lack of Bruce Wayne
3. Is it just me or was Harvey Dent lead no. 2. I almost saw it as a similar dynamic to Leo and DDL in Gangs of New York. Again adding to my crave for Bruce.
4. The rushing of Two-Faces death… WTF… Why did Harvey/Two-Face die here. His story is not complete at all
5. Hate to sound unorginal but… length. It’s not that I feel some of the film was unnecessary and could’ve been taken out… I think there should’ve been more. It would’ve made sense to me to “Kill Bill” this film. I would’ve liked this to be the 2nd and 3rd installments to Nolan’s trilogy to be honest. I think the second film could’ve ended after the (ugly word) consensus natural ending… post Rachel’s death and Joker’s escape. The third film could have thencontinued from there, having solid villains in the Joker and Two-Face; allowing more development for both Two-Face and Bruce.
2 7-18-2008 at 10:18 pm
Walter said...
What, no praise for Gary Oldman’s performance as Gordon? True, he had little screen time, but he was superb, heads and tails above any other incarnation of Gordon, improving on his already great work in Batman Begins.
I feel like I’m the only one who likes Rachel Dawes. Ballsy move, I thought, getting rid of her like that.
Aaron Eckhart was absolutely the only thing I thought about after leaving the theater. Than Heath Ledger. Than Eckhart. Than Ledger again.
I agree with Casey, though: it even felt like two films put together. Still, I was immensely satisfied overall. Loved it. Everything a Bat-fan could ask for.
3 7-18-2008 at 10:24 pm
Walter said...
oh, sorry, didn’t see the official review. kudos to oldman comments!
4 7-18-2008 at 11:45 pm
Liz said...
Loved it. One question, though: how did they fake Gordon’s death? He was shot unexpectedly in the back and there was blood. How do you plan for/fake that?
5 7-19-2008 at 12:05 am
Nicole said...
Loved it. No words can accurately express, but I’ll try.
Wish Heath had some more screen time. My face just lit up everytime I saw him. I think he really stole the show, and it’s a terrible thing that he’s gone. It was a morbidly funny thing, that I only just remembered he was gone while I was walking back to my car in the parking lot. Heath isn’t the Joker, The Joker is his own entity which Heath somehow managed to tap, perfectly. That’s why I don’t see Heath in the joker, and why I was still able to so enjoy the performance.
Loved Gordon. At the part where he “died” I was shocked, because I had heard he had a part at the end. I was just thinking to myself “whuh?”
Of course Harvey was great. I loved that they put tiny references to two-face, even at the introduction of his character. Also, I loved the part where Harvey shows a little two-face in him when he interrogates the arkham patient “cop”. I felt it helped show that he did have a darker side, and that the whole two-face transformation wasn’t completely spontaneous.
Bruce was great. Funnily enough, he’s obnoxios business man side reminded me of Christian in American Psycho, which made me giggle a bit. I felt Bruce was very human in this, and had not only two sides, but three. (Business Bruce, normal Bruce, and of course Batman) One thing I noticed about Batman’s gritty voice, was that at some points you could here Christian’s lisp haha.
I keep hearing everyone hating Maggie’s perfomance, but I thought she soared over Katie, and was completely necessary to the story. Maggie had a great performance, in my opinion. She was believable, and what I liked was that she brought a distinct strength to her character. I like her better than Selina Kyle anyway…
Of course Caine and Freeman were solid. I’s come to the point where oyu expect that from them, and it can be something you take for granted, which is fantastic. I feel that when you can take and actor or actress for granted that they’ll be not only be great but be absolutely incredible, is when you know they are really a good actor.
So, I think that’s it.
Favorite scene=pencil impalement.
Hahaha
6 7-19-2008 at 2:27 am
Brian Kinsley said...
I just got back, and it’s a big improvement from “Begins,” though hardly the Best Movie Of All Time status it’s been receiving round some parts (I think Kris is pretty on the ball, which delights me).
One thing I HATED was the “Daredevil” sonar rehash.
7 7-19-2008 at 6:36 am
Casey said...
Ya I totally agree on Oldman… man if this were a film with the kind of prestige as the Godfather it too would have 3 supporting actor nominations… not a joke at all. Eckhart was fantastic and Oldman might have given the most affecting performance in the film. Do I really need to say anything about Heath? I really wish Bale would get some recognition though. I feel like every time he has a release people overlook him and months later say how criminally overlooked he is… come on!
8 7-19-2008 at 8:29 am
Melanie said...
The only thing that really bothered me was Harvey Dent’s perfect diction after half his lips are burned off. Some slurring would have been more realistic, and probably added to the impression of his “fall from grace”. I mean come on, can you imagine being able to make a recognizable M or B soun without half your lips? It distracted me from the story every scene he spoke that way. That’s my ONLY complaint, however.
9 7-19-2008 at 11:46 am
Mr. Gittes said...
My thoughts on the film:
The Dark Knight completely lives up to the hype, and almost met all the expectations that I had for it. Heath Ledger without a doubt deserves an Oscar nomination. The absence of crucial moments worries Ledger’s Joker and he combats that “worry” by participating in terrorizing schemes that John Doe of Se7en would envy.
Gary Oldman is incredible. His speech at the end might be my favorite “part” in the movie. The action is well directed and Nolan’s desire to stay away from CGI as much as possible really, really benefits the movie and its sense of realism.
Kudos to the Nolan bros. for crafting such a clever script and I hope they return for a third. Oldman’s speech at the end sets up some interesting ideas to explore. Daniel Day-Lewis: how about playing a villain again? You’re the only one that can match Heath.
Will there really be five films better than TDK this year? I don’t think so…WB needs to push this film, not just Ledger. Okay, I’m going to go see TDK again…
P.S. Actually my favorite scene is where Heath is driving the police car with his head out the window staring at the sky.
10 7-19-2008 at 11:49 am
Silencio said...
Melanie, I agree with the diction issue, but only in retrospect. I didn’t notice it at all while watching.
I also felt Eckart and Oldman were standouts. And though I agree that Two Face was killed off too soon, I didn’t find him interesting enough of a character to warrant another whole movie with him.
I really dug the existential questions. One of the most affecting moments for me was when there were the two boats, and the prisoner took the detonator and threw it out of the window. That whole scene seemed to contain the film’s case for some hope in humanity.
The way they handled Dent’s image at the end, of the faultless hero, also carried Christian undertones for me. And Batman seemed to take a Judas role, if you consider the fact that Judas was actually good and did what was needed for the larger plan.
And Heath was even more than I thought he would be. I agree with Nicole about the pencil scene. WOW. And when he walked out of the hospital. That was probably the funniest moment in the film.
Heath probably deserves to win the Supporting Oscar, but I hope he doesn’t. I just want us to remember him.
11 7-19-2008 at 11:51 am
Silencio said...
Whoops… “if you consider the fact that Judas was actually good and did what was needed for the larger plan.”
I meant to say consider the POSSIBILITY, not the “fact”. Since that really can’t be confirmed.
12 7-19-2008 at 11:58 am
Fei said...
Kris, please make a post once The Dark Knight has officially toppled Spider-Man 3’s opening weekend record. I really want to gloat to the minority of readers here about how they were WRONG WRONG WRONG in predicting that it would make less than $100M on opening weekend and less than $300M total.
13 7-19-2008 at 12:15 pm
Kristopher Tapley said...
The debate raging between me and my friends is Two Face’s fate. I don’t think he’s dead at all. I think falling from a building and going out with a whimper is NOT something Nolan is prepared to do with this character. I think the best way to preserve Dent’s legacy is for him to be dead in the eyes of the public, however, so the memorial makes sense. But the character dead already? No…I don’t think so.
Of course, I’ve had similar feelings about Ra’s al Ghul for three years.
14 7-19-2008 at 12:15 pm
Kristopher Tapley said...
Casey: I’ll address your points when I have some time to mull them over. I promise.
15 7-19-2008 at 12:38 pm
Kyle Leaman said...
I really hope that this was the death of Dent. I honestly don’t know how they could stretch him out to fill another movie. If he really was going to be featured in film three, then doesn’t it feel like they would’ve lopped off the entire ending with Gordon’s family and saved the rage and injustice for film three?
Personally, I hope it ends here, as it gives The Joker’s final words more weight and Batman’s sacrifice more weight as well.
16 7-19-2008 at 1:03 pm
Kristopher Tapley said...
Rage and injustice was a part of his psyche in this film. He still had the ties, the emotional pain of Rachel. But Two Face has no such ties. He is a creature of random chance and this film dealt with the first, but the second could be terrifying — as equally terrifying as the Joker — in another installment.
17 7-19-2008 at 2:50 pm
Kyle Leaman said...
I see your point. I wouldn’t put it past the Nolans to come up with a satisfying story for Two Face, but I just get the feeling that the character has given us most of what he had; we got his origin, the money shots of his face, his initial backlash, and several coin tosses and references to chance.
18 7-19-2008 at 3:05 pm
Joseph said...
Excellent film, although I found the first 30 minutes or so bogged down by unneeded, over talky exposition that did no service to the story. As it ended, though, I couldn’t help but love it in all its maniacal, complex beauty.
And just for kicks, this film has just replaced “The Godfather” as the #1 film of all time on IMDb’s Top 250. Hahaha.
19 7-19-2008 at 3:15 pm
Brian Kinsley said...
Ugh. IMDb is hell.
Whether or not Harvey is dead doesn’t erase the fact that Nolan did a very poor job handling that particular scene.
It’s odd, most of my complaints about Batman Begins are identical to here: sloppy villain send-offs, too many useless CG POV shots, unbelievable tech gadgetry, etc…
I think one of my favorite Joker moments was:
GAMBLE: Do you think you can just walk in here and steal our money?!
JOKER: Yes.
Also, the entire hospital scene was magnificent. “Hiiii.” The way he washed his hands. And of course, the walk from the hospital. Probably the most iconic shot/scene of the year.
And Rachel Dawes was still annoying as hell.
20 7-19-2008 at 3:17 pm
Joel said...
To clear something up, Two-Face isn’t dead. After he fell off the ledge, there was a quick shot of his coin. It was undamaged face up, which meant that the person at hand would live.
And did anyone else see the similarity between Coleman Reese (the guy who tried to blackmail Bruce) and The Riddler. Is he the possible villain next film? Because if you remember from Schumacher’s film, The Riddler was trying to find out Batman’s identity AND had an obsession with money. And he was meek when not in the green leotard. Just a thought…
21 7-19-2008 at 3:42 pm
Kyle Leaman said...
Well, Two-Face is “dead” at the end of the movie. Whether or not Nolan chooses to keep him alive is another question, but certainly the possibilty is there, and as Kris pointed out, able to provide more material.
I like your idea with Coleman Reese. Particularly liked the look Wayne shot him after smashing his car to protect him. To me that signaled the end of the Reese threat, but you never know, its another thread that can be explored.
22 7-19-2008 at 3:44 pm
Kyle Leaman said...
Sorry, forgot to post this in the previous one. Regarding the Riddler. Just recently re-watched Batman Forever, and while Carrey’s Riddler is over the top and a mess at times, there were certain things that provided glimmers of hope. The idea of controling all the private information was interesting and with the introduction into Nolan’s batverse of the surveillance question, one that can be explored with interest in another installment. Just thinking.
23 7-19-2008 at 4:00 pm
Casey said...
Kris, thanks a lot man thats all I can ask
24 7-19-2008 at 4:50 pm
Brian Kinsley said...
Reese’s motivation in becoming the Riddler is extremely cloudy right now though. Presumably, he thinks Wayne saved his life, so that vendetta is gone. With the Joker threat out of the picture and the Batman the big exile (but NOT Bruce Wayne, which kind of dampens the excitement of the ending when you think about it), it would be wiser for Reese to go straight to Wayne for money, and if he didn’t get it, would he still betray the man that saved his life?
25 7-19-2008 at 4:54 pm
Kristopher Tapley said...
Joel: You make me proud. I noticed the shot of the coin too. And it is DEFINITELY not a throwaway shot.
Reese can easily become the Riddler, and it would be a great shout out to Jeph Loeb’s “Hush,” which dealt with Riddler’s discovery of who the Batman is.
26 7-19-2008 at 5:00 pm
Kristopher Tapley said...
Actually, Joel. the second coin flip was for Dent. The third flip which was for Gordon’s son, who of course survives.
Had to think about it there for a minute. But glad you’re thinkin! I don’t think he’s dead at all.
27 7-19-2008 at 5:53 pm
Casey said...
I really hope Two-Face isn’t dead because not only do I think that was a poor way to rush and conclude Two-Face’s story… but he just died like a punk if he did die.
But on the Riddler issue… I dunno… I just get the feeling that on such a large production and such that the riddler would be a fairly sought-after role. maybe there would be some talk of a bigger actor in that role… I doubt he’d recast
28 7-19-2008 at 6:55 pm
Brian Kinsley said...
“It’s all… part of the plan…”
The Ledger tragedy aside, I have no doubt Nolan already knows the answers to all the questions ringing around in our heads.
So Kris, do you think Ra’s AND Two-Face come back?
29 7-19-2008 at 8:22 pm
Jack said...
Maybe I’m looking too much into this but if Two Face really is dead, wouldn’t Batman have broken his one rule that he won’t kill anyone? Or did chance have Two Face fall to his death? Personally i don’t think he’s dead.
30 7-19-2008 at 8:48 pm
Brian Kinsley said...
It was an accidental death, as Batman’s main priority was Gordon’s son.
Also, was anyone else surprised that Gordon had 2 kids after only talking and showing one of them until that point at the end?
31 7-19-2008 at 8:56 pm
Casey said...
well they need to include Barbara really. even if she doesnt become Batgirl, just for the sake of continuity
32 7-19-2008 at 9:13 pm
Casey said...
just wanted to throw this out there… why no talk of costume design… joker suit is perfection. new batsuit was genius
33 7-19-2008 at 9:45 pm
Martin Edwards said...
Just came back from seeing it. Overall, great great film. One of the best crime dramas of the decade.
Here’s what I thought about:
I didn’t feel complete with the Two-Face storyline. Harvey Dent, yes. But I feel like the Nolans kind of “Venom-ed” Two-Face as far as actual villainy story with the character. The Harvey Dent story got the full length it deserved, but this particular villain feels too iconic in Batman’s history to just be laid to waste for the sake of the message the Nolans were selling. That being said, that did not change my love for the movie one iota. What the Nolans did worked very well, and diabolically, in The Joker’s grand scheme.
Heath was as free, easy, and intricate with his performance as I’ve ever seen an actor be. It was not only haunting and mesmerizing, but inspiring as well. The potential for truly terrifying chaos The Joker’s always had finally comes to fruition. He’s a ruthless monster who touches a nerve in me with his mesasge of a society as rule free as he would like.
As for who could be the next villain could be, I’d want to say The Penguin, because he was always a personal favorite of mine. But holding that back for me is that as untouchable Jack’s performance was (before Heath blew him out of the water), I feel Danny DeVito’s is even more so. His was a ballsy, all-out performance that makes me exhausted just watching it, and it fit perfectly with the mood Burton was going for. Nolan’s series would obviously require a very different Penguin and thus could lead to another fantastic actor and performance (PSH? Paul Giamatti?) but for the life of me I can’t think of a story line to get him in there beyond Burton’s “run for mayor for revenge” Good thing I’m not a Nolan.
More when I have a better chance to sit down and think for a while.
34 7-19-2008 at 9:45 pm
Kyle Leaman said...
If, by chance (no pun intended), Dent doesn’t show in a third film, will everyone be disappointed?
35 7-19-2008 at 11:32 pm
Kristopher Tapley said...
Barbara was actually in Batman Begins, folks. Scene where bats shows up on his doorstep. Just fleeting, though. She’s even credited in the final roll.
Martin: I appreciate your enthusiasm for the Penguin, but I’ve always felt he is a secondary figure in the universe. A mob tie guy, someone for Bob Hoskins to drop in and play with his hands tied behind his back, but the TV show made him an instant part of the rogues gallery. I’ve never personally seen him as such.
I think we’ll be seeing the Riddler in the next film (and I love the idea of Reese taking it up — I love the line in “Hush,” something like “What is it worth knowing the greatest secret in the world if others know it too.” Perfect reason for Reese to keep it to himself and go all criminal mastermind on us, but a Nygma could pop up, learn the secret and off Reese or something too).
I also, as mentioned, still think there is more to Two Face here and we’ll see him again. And dammit, I’m just waiting for Ra’s to show up in the third act of part three and have had a hand in all the shenanigans thus far. Would be BRILLIANT, Ra’s still trying to dismantle Gotham, but through super villainy.
Casey (finally getting to this — sorry for the delay):
1. I think this is sort of the point of what the narrative is driving at. At the end of the first film, Rachel new that Batman’s mask was Bruce Wayne, that the real Bruce was deep inside him. In this film, Bruce tries to find a place where he can relinquish the monster, but he doesn’t get there. And Rachel is wise enough to understand that early, as evidenced by her choice to move on with Harvey. So with that in mind, Batman is indeed more of an important figure than Bruce Wayne.
“The Dark Knight” is obviously a story about Harvey Dent on one level, and as you may have read in my review, I see the city as the true protagonist. But it makes since for “Batman Begins” to be more about Wayne than “The Dark Knight.”
2. I’ll have to take another look to fully address the intimate scenes question, but the second viewing did make me feel like cuts were too fast and loose with the drama. However, I think the action was handled very well and wasn’t as disorienting as some felt it to be.
3. As mentioned, yeah, I kind of see Dent as a figure the film revolves around, if it isn’t necessarily ABOUT him. Certainly his arc is the beating heart of the story.
4. Two Face ain’t dead. Not like that. I have more faith in Nolan than that.
5. I do feel the final 30 minutes feel tacked on. However, my problem isn’t necessarily with the length but with the structure. I don’t have an answer here per se — it would take some thinking — but I can’t imagine losing any beat in the entire flick.
Hope that works for ya.
36 7-20-2008 at 12:59 am
David Fincannon said...
I am first and foremost a Batman fan. I thoroughly enjoyed this film as a movie. There were key elements I had always wanted to see in a film that they got spot on. For one Two Face’s appearance. WOW I never thought I’d see his scared half done THAT well.
And Walter? I so agree with you on Oldman as Gordon. How much more perfect can you get? The man IS Gordon and Jim is probably my favorite Batman supporting character. That’s one thing that bugged me to no end from the previous films. I hated “that” Gordon.
Moving on. I had one problem with this movie. I just didn’t like Batman in this movie as much as I wanted to. I love Batman Begins and Bale nailed Batman in that film. In this he used that growly voice a bit too much. Bale’s public Wayne was much better in this film . I guess Batman just wasn’t iconic enough for me in this film. Maybe The Animated Series and Justice League just spoiled me lol . But that’s how I wanna see Batman in a live action film. I loved everything else about the film.
37 7-20-2008 at 1:09 am
David Fincannon said...
Yeah I think alot of people are jumping the gun to declare Two Face as dead. Not once did I take the whole ending as if they were putting Two face to rest but more Harvey Dent as they wished to remember him. That fall didn’t look enough to kill him anyway.
38 7-20-2008 at 1:22 am
David Fincannon said...
In regards to your Penguin casting ides, Martin. I’d like to suggest that you look up pics of Toby Jones. And as far as Paul Giamatti ? I could see him fitting very easily into the role of The Ventriloquist. His look compliments Norm Breyfogle’s and BTAS’s look of the character and he can pull off that timid voice very well. I could also see his more aggressive voice work very well for ScarFace. Not that Nolan and Co. would use the character in this series but hey if so it could work well with Nolan’s “realistic” approach.
39 7-20-2008 at 7:19 am
Casey said...
Thanks a lot Kris… I see where your coming from with regards to Bruce v. Batman. And I really hope your right about Two-Face. For a film maker as talented and experienced as Nolan, the Two-Face death scene would be amateur if he really did die; but it makes perfect sense if he’s still alive
40 7-20-2008 at 8:10 am
Silencio said...
Yeah…now I’m pretty sure he’s alive.
41 7-20-2008 at 10:44 am
Kristopher Tapley said...
Norm fuckin’ Breyfogle. My favorite Bat artist of all time (followed closely by Tim Sale).
Also, one more note about the Two Face fall.
There are two other scenes in the film that depict a fall from a relatively high ppoint (Maggie from the penthouse and Maroni when he busts his ankles). All, of course, survive.
I see this as a weird rule of threes, to be honest. It’s too…clean. Too something to not be an interior wink of sorts.
42 7-20-2008 at 6:49 pm
David Fincannon said...
Mine too Kris!! I am the Batman fan I am today because of that man! I have yet to see Batman stories as good today as when he and Grant Morrison/Alan Grant had their run. Norm’s Batman was so natural. He made him less like a guy in a uniform and more creature like.
43 7-20-2008 at 7:03 pm
Kristopher Tapley said...
I always loved this cover.
44 7-20-2008 at 8:55 pm
Koh-Tahl said...
This was the best batman film ever. Heath was Great, only wish he were still alive to reprise the role. Aaron was great as Two-Face, but I hate the fact that they killed him (or did was he unconcious, and was the “funeral” a cover-up for his move to arkham?). I liked Katie Holmes’ Rachel better; she was bitchier, which made it better. I love Goldman as Gordon. The greatest thing about this movie, was that there were parts that reminded me of The Animated Series as well as the comics. It felt like a Batman movie more than Begins did. Can
t wait for the third, and more to come.
45 7-20-2008 at 9:52 pm
Mr. Gittes said...
So was that funeral service at the end for Dent a cover? The large, blown-up picture of Dent suggested that it was indeed a funeral…
I really hope Cillian Murphy makes a longer appearance in the next Batman. And with the Riddler, maybe Two-Face, and the Joker played by Daniel Day-Lewis…Jesus, I can’t wait.
46 7-20-2008 at 10:26 pm
Casey said...
Daniel Day-Lewis would never do a sequel to this film. plus, I really hope they don’t recast that role and just leave him in Arkham or something. I don’t even want to watch someone try to follow that up. I think it would be a show of respect to Heath and his performance by retiring Nolan’s Joker with him. Like retiring an athletes jersey number
47 7-20-2008 at 10:40 pm
Brian Kinsley said...
At the same time, though, if the Joker featured prominently in Batman3, it’s a damn, damn shame to lose that.
48 7-21-2008 at 7:51 am
Adam Kenobi said...
First off, I LOVED THIS MOVIE!!!
Two face is not dead, it never even crossed my mind. Also, I am curious what evryone thought about the batpod’s launch from the tumbler. I completely ignored that rumor a while back, and when it happened in the movie, I was all “Holy Crap!!!” I thought it was pretty cool.
49 7-21-2008 at 10:17 am
Kristopher Tapley said...
I think it was more a memorial than a funeral. I didn’t see a casket is all I’m saying.
50 7-21-2008 at 12:54 pm
Mr. Gittes said...
I don’t believe there was a casket. So it’s a memorial for Dent in what context? For his disappearance? His admittance to Arkham? It’s all part of Nolan’s plan…
It’s pretty clear that Nolan was going to expand on the “chest-game” between the Joker and Batman in the next movie. With that said, I keep touting Daniel Day-Lewis as a more than suitable replacement for Ledger, but what about James Franco? Young like Ledger, similar facial structure, etc. Food for thought…
51 7-21-2008 at 11:05 pm
Brian Kinsley said...
Jonathan Nolan seems to think Harvey Dent is dead in the new Creative Screenwriting podcast…
Sometimes sloppiness is just plain sloppiness I guess. :’(
52 7-22-2008 at 10:38 am
David Fincannon said...
Hell yeah, Kris. I once met Breyfogle at a local signing he did. He walked in wearing that cover on a shirt. lol as a “Cheers” joke we all yelled “NORM” when he walked in. lol he replies “Somebody get me a beer , eh?” lol good times man.
53 7-22-2008 at 10:41 am
David Fincannon said...
As far as someone taking over Heath’s Joker the only person I could really see doing Ledger’s Joker any real justice is Johnny Depp.
54 7-22-2008 at 6:22 pm
RyddlemeTHIS said...
ok, Coleman Reese becoming the Riddler? STUPID, heres why- The Riddlers name is EDWARD NYGMA. Yeah….shocking right? I find it baffling that any Bat-Fan would consider this a good idea! How about Alfred becomes lonely because Bruce is always out fighting crime, so he gets a dummy to..uh..keep him company, and learns that their is a dark side to him he never knew existed…thus becoming THE VENTRILOQUIST!! Seriously, everyones entitled to their opinions…but keep the extremely ridiculous ones to yourself :)
Plus Coleman Reese was a little bitch in the movie. (I was really hoping they were going to shoot him. Maybe not kill him, but SHOOT the prick!)
BUT ANYWAYS-TDK is now one of my all-time favorite movies but I have one small problem-How the hell didn’t Nolan realize that Bale’s Batman voice sounds anything BUT scary?! I love Bale in the role, but he seriously has to take that voice down a couple notches for the next one.
55 7-22-2008 at 8:51 pm
dakid said...
I think that Ryan Gosling would make a great Joker…but he shouldn’t appear in #3 out of respect to Mr. Ledger.
Between Depp, Day-Lewis and Gosling, I think you’d have the best shot at getting Mr. Gosling to sign on the dotted line. And he’s a marvelous young actor, to boot.
56 7-22-2008 at 9:48 pm
Kristopher Tapley said...
“I find it baffling that any Bat-Fan would consider this a good idea!”
It’s not that crazy. Wouldn’t be nuts for Reese to take on the Nygma moniker. After all, it’s just a play on ENIGMA.
Reese as Riddler would be a great idea. Hardly “extremely ridiculous.”
The rest of your comment, RyddlemeTHIS, is obviously hyperbolic, silly and offensive. Come to the table with some intellect, please. This ain’t AICN.